Customer Experience Superheroes - Series 8 Episode 2 - Charity Experience Masterclass with Ashley Jones

Ashley Jones is an incredible individual. As the founder of Love Not Lost, a bereavement charity which helps families when a loved one passes, by creating enduring memories, she is more than making her life a meaningful one in society. 

The way Ashley runs the charity provides an exceptional experience  for donors (the Heartbeat), benefactors, photographers (tune in to hear how they fit in), volunteers and board members is breathtaking.  

Listen to the podcast, hosted by Christopher Brooks, and you will be taken on a masterclass in charity experience. Already a TEDx speaker and featured on BBC podcasts, Ashley is a source of learning for others. From finding your true north and applying it to everything you do to 'celebrating the success of others as your progress'. Ashley covers all the bases despite not coming from a customer experience background. 

As is always the case with Ashley's generosity, she gives all her tips away. But if you really want to know how good the experience is, sign up. Make http://LoveNotLost.org your, 'Giving Tuesday' extra cause.  You can connect with Ashley on LinkedIn if you want to be in touch with this inspirational maverick, making a difference to so many people's lives. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Hello and welcome to another episode of Customer Experience Superheroes. My name is Christopher Brooks, and I am your host for this series, in which we meet up with exceptional individuals who share with us what it takes to be a CX superhero in today's world of customer experience. They share their superpowers, their ideas, their insights, and their inspiration. In this episode, we catch up with Ashley Jones, the founder of Not For Profit Love Not Lost. Ashley shares with us the tragic circumstances through which Love Not Lost originated and the incredible work she and her colleagues have been delivering ever since. Sit back and enjoy a masterclass in charity experience. So today on the Customa Experienced Superheroes, we have um what I can only describe as a giant in the world of charity experience. We have with us somebody who I've had the pleasure of learning from over the last few months. What it's helped me appreciate is just how challenging it is to run a charity when you've got to deliver so much as well as an experience. So welcome to the CX Superheroes, Ashley Jones.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Thank you so much, Christopher. I'm thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Thank you. So, Ashley, you're here um representing your charity, which is Love Not Lost. People are going to get to know you, and I I can promise you you're going to be bothered for tips and hints on how you do charity experience. Um, you may not realize how how good you are at in it, but you know, you are very, very good at it. So I will make sure that we kind of cover some of the key areas there. But what I'd like to do first of all is just take you back to kind of where we where we met, basically. So um give our audience a bit of an appreciation of kind of how we first came into being, and then we'll have a good conversation around the charity in its own right before we get into some really juicy tips and hints on kind of charity experience.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Absolutely. Yeah, so I have a really dear good friend from really grade school, high school, uh named Nate Brown, who is a CX customer experience guru. And uh he called me and was like, Ashley, have you ever heard of the CX World Games? And I was like, No, I have not. Please tell me more about it. And he went on about this amazing customer experience challenge and how all these people come together to give their services back and solve a problem for a nonprofit or a charity or a cause for good, and how he was interested in nominating our charity to be selected for one of those beneficiary projects. And I was like, this sounds amazing! Like, yeah, sign me up. Like, this is so cool. And it's just so neat to have so many different, you know, CX experts in their fields come together to work on a problem. So you and I, Christopher, were introduced through that and Love Not Lost was selected. Um, we were so excited about it, and we um got to participate in the challenge. And so one of the challenge that we presented for the CX teams were to really help us convert donors on our web page. We would get a lot of traffic, but not as many conversions. And so we were trying to figure out like where that kind of bottleneck problem was. Anyway, we we went through the world games. It was a fantastic experience. It was really fun to um get ideas from all the different teams that were very different. And so the cool thing is like some of them we implemented right away, and then some of them we're still working on, and some of them we've saved for the future until we have you know more staff or resources to apply to them. But but overall, it was just a great experience. And so that's how we got to know each other. And through the donor experience, you, Christopher, has have actually signed up as a monthly giver to kind of like get the full experience, which was really cool. And that's you know, a program we call the heartbeat of Love Not Lost are the the givers who give monthly. And the reason why is because they truly do keep us alive and and allow us to love really well. And that heartbeat happens on a regular basis, it's consistent, it's life-giving. And so, as a part of the heartbeat membership, we've created this experience of, you know, like a welcome gift and then an anniversary giving gift every year, which changes depending on what year you are. And it's just a really fun thing and a really just an appreciation for for those people who choose to commit and give, because it is such an incredible way to help a nonprofit organization, not only in fulfilling our mission, but giving us the freedom to plan to know what's coming in month over month. It's it's just such a really beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

The heartbeat I'll come on to because I I would imagine our listeners already can tell by the language you're using, how you are so connected to the brand. Because I've worked in my past um on a number of charities, um, large charities, and the sense has always been let's get them across the line. Once we get that repeat donation, job done. From your perspective, that's just the start of the journey. And that's what makes your approach so very, very different. But we're gonna get in, I'm gonna break some of that down as well, because I think some really incredible lessons that I don't think you appreciate are just so wonderful that others can learn from. But before we do, love not lost, tell me a little bit about the origination of the charity and why over the last uh 10 years you've been so committed to it.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Basically, my husband and I had a daughter, and she was diagnosed with a terminal illness when she was just two months old. And at that time, my husband and I were 25. And then we were told she'd be lucky to see her first birthday. And with the help of a researcher for her condition called spinal muscular atrophy, we were able to get to 21 months old before we had to say goodbye. During that time, we had this anticipatory grief, you know, when someone's facing a terminal diagnosis, you know the end is coming, it's terrible. Um, but you do have the gift of time of knowing. And so it was like, how do we prepare? And and our friends were kind of in that same kind of shock and questioning of like, okay, what do we do? How can we support them? And what I realized is like, you know, my husband and I both come from privileged backgrounds, like we had access to education, clubs, and activities, and we could get involved in whatever we wanted to. And what I realized is even though we were involved in so much clubs and sports and extracurricular stuff, uh, schools, neighborhood association, you know, like all the things, we never were taught how to grieve. And none of our friends were taught how to support others in grief. And so we were all kind of lost together of what do we do? And one of our friends gifted us a professional portrait session to preserve those memories and really just give us a gift of freezing time. And when our daughter passed away at 21 months old, those photos, I mean, I knew they were going to be special, but I didn't recognize how much of a tool they were in the healing process. And it was over that first year of that raw grief where I really was just struggling so much with like, what do I do? And all the resources out there are telling me like, you might feel this, this might happen to you, you might experience this. And it's like, yes, all that is happening, but but then what? And how do I heal? And that was something I really, really struggled with. And what I learned just through listening to my own body and just like being present was that feeling is healing. And if I could create space for myself to feel the emotions, to feel that deep pain, to feel the anger, to feel the depression, to feel the sadness, to feel all of the icky stuff we don't want to feel that we often try and run away from. But if I could sit with that and feel it, it could move through me and it would pass. And so what I learned was that the photos were actually this beautiful gift, not just because they preserved memories, but because they also created that tangible space for me to sit with those feelings. And I could hold the photo of Skylar when she wasn't here to hold. And I could sit with that longing and I could sit with that sadness. But then as time passed, those feelings were moving and flowing. And so therefore they were changing, you know, and I wasn't stuck in depression, I wasn't stuck in sadness. It was like, okay, now sometimes I hold the photos and I smile because I can see her beautiful blue eyes, and I can, you know, remember those moments when, you know, we kissed her on the side of the face and squished her cheeks together and she like cried with like, you know, just like this utter uh disgust that we would smush her face by kissing her. Um, and so, you know, there those memories that that pull back from that session. And the other thing too is Skylar died, our daughter died in 2011. So it's been 10 years. And, you know, it's so sad, especially, you know, as a parent losing someone, but anyone losing anyone, you worry that you're gonna forget them, or like somehow time will pass and and and they won't be as close to you. But like the photos really help keep their memory close. And it's like an external hard drive almost, where like so much has happened in the last 10 years without her, that all of those memories are more fresh. And so I can pull more details from those. But the beauty about the photos is that they are kind of like an external hard drive where I look at the photo, and even though it's one moment, it pulls back a slew of memories from deep in my brain that I maybe couldn't have pulled out else in another way. But that photo just triggered that opening to where it's like, oh yeah, and remember that day this happened, and then that, you know. And so it's like, it's just a beautiful way to um to capture memory and and to process emotions and to heal and to grieve and feel and just support you on this healing transformation and grief. So with Love Not Lost, I as I recognized what a gift the photos were, I started volunteering those portrait sessions for other people facing a terminal diagnosis and just wanted to help people going through similar things. And so I volunteered more and more and was giving everything away. And my husband was like, honey, I love you and you're giving heart, but you have got to stop. We have bills to pay. And so I was like, I hear you and I agree, but also I can't charge these families anything. We know how hard it was with insurance not covering things and funeral expenses and and all of that. And photography is such a luxury that it needs to be a gift. And so if I can't afford and if we can't afford to give it all away, I know that I can find other people who believe in this work who want to help me give it all away. And so that's what led me to start it as a nonprofit so that people could help me give it all away to families in need.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Wow, what a what a story. Thank you so much for for sharing that. And we now have Love Not Lost. It exists in the world to help others through this this process. I mean, you were telling me how many families you've actually helped through this. It's it's not one or two here. How many are you up to now?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

102 as of today.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

That's incredible. That's incredible. So the photographers uh do they get trained or do they do they understand what you know the kind of the grieving process as well? How does it work then?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, so we have photographer volunteers who want to be trained by us, and they already are talented photographers. Like they already know to get the sharp focus, to get the depth of field, the lighting, the posing, they already know all the technical aspects of it. What we do as an organization is really help them with the grief and empathy piece. So, in stepping into this sensitive situation, how do you support someone without taking on their problems and their pain as your own? And how do you support yourself if you do feel like you've taken on some of their grief or if you are feeling grief yourself over their situation? And then how do you support yourself in that journey to heal and give yourself self-care, which oftentimes requires mindfulness and awareness and just paying attention and listening to your body? And so that's more of what we teach in our training. And then we also go over things that are not typical for photographers. So, for example, like, you know, most photographers would feel comfortable walking into a normal portrait session, but how do you get really beautiful photos if someone is stuck laying in a bed? And how do you capture a baby beautifully if they're connected to all these tubes and wires? And how do you make a family look connected if they're the dad that we're photographing is is limited to a wheelchair, you know, and there's that physical separation. Um, and so those are some of the things we go through. We also touch on some like emotional situations of like what you might experience and and how to handle it. So we do go through situational stuff and really want to make sure that the photographers feel confident to walk into any situation and love and support the family really well, but also be able to love and support themselves really well.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Sure. This is getting into what I think is quite incredible about the organization you run, because um we're in the world of customer experience, and typically that is about a business and a customer, and it's a it's a transaction. The better you make the experience, ideally, the more they're likely to come back. Well, a lot of these rules don't work in your world, and yet you're delivering an incredible experience. So if we take that scenario of the photographer, the photographer, if you look at the kind of the job sheet, go to find the scenario, unfortunate wires and difficult situation. I will do what I can, I leave. But actually, that's that's not the standard. That's a standard that is expected with authentic empathy. And that's what you're delivering here is to recognize that that photographer has got to have empathy with the situation that everyone is in. But also, I would imagine some of the basics as well must really be important to get right. So you have to arrange a time for the photographer to be there. The photographer has to look well kept, he has to know people's, he or she knows people's names. If they make a commitment to get these back by X date, there must be email communications, all the stuff that could really trigger greater upset than actually, you know, a wonderful gift and long-lasting memories. And also from that perspective, this family, you're keeping your fingers crossed, this is the only time you do this session with them. You you know, you don't want to be in a situation where you're going back for another family member or another family member. So, how do you square this then, Ashley, that you've got to develop this incredible empathetic experience on top of the functional experience, which can get in the way. And if the photographer turns up an hour late or the email doesn't go out to say we're coming, I'm sure it can create all sorts of anxiety and stress. So, how do you apply yourself to get to that level of kind of support for for the are you are you putting the families first in this at all times, or are you also giving consider it sounds like giving consideration to the photographers as well, recognizing what they're going through? So, how do how do you do it?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, so I think it's important to go really back to the beginning of how this all started, which was to a single question, which was how can we love people better? When I started Love Not Lost, I had sheets of paper across my desk. And at the top of each one, I had a different people group that we were serving or interacting with. So on the top of one page, it was photographers, on the top of another page, it was donors, on the top of another page, it was families, on the top of another page, it was hospitals and hospices, on the top of another page, it was board members, um, on the top of another page, it was staff members. And before anyone was on my team, I asked myself the question: how can we love people better? And how can we love specifically each of these people better that we'll we're gonna be interacting with with our photographers? This is what's needed, these are potential problems, these are kind of like what they're gonna have to overcome. And so, how can we love them better, knowing that they're gonna go through this situation and knowing, and and so to your point, like do the photographers or families come first? Like they're they're so intertwined that like neither really come first. How can we love them each in their in their own way? So that really, like we're just creating this web and network of love. If the photographers feel loved and cared for, they're gonna be able to love and care for the families, right? If they're healthy and if they have the margin to hold space for families, they'll be able to do that. But if they're not healthy and they don't have the margin to hold space, that's not gonna be a great experience, right? As we've developed different programs and systems, everything comes back to that core question of how do we love people better? With our board members, it's like, yeah, we have an onboarding experience. We have strategic board day retreats where we all come together in person. We have end-of-year book gifts that we give to help them continue to think about love not lost in strategic ways, but then also to show our appreciation for them. Um, they give so much. With our donors, it's the same way. It's like, how can we love and appreciate them for all that they do for not only us as an organization, but for the families? Like they're really changing lives. You know, how can we love them better? We're not perfect, right? Like we're human, we will mess up, we will have emails that don't go out or communication that isn't communicated well that causes problems. But I think in how we approach it goes back to like, okay, this happened, but from this point, how can we move forward in loving people well? That's really like, I mean, it's really the driving question behind everything we do is how can we love people better?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

I I think that's incredible because every organization should try to get to how can we make a difference? And your how can we make a difference is how can we love them better. So you've set that as your continuous improvement. You're always going to be getting that better and better and learning from it. But to your point there, accepting when it doesn't go wrong, it's just a case of resetting and saying, right now, how can I love them better? How can I love them better? When you get things wrong, it's how you recover them, and people go, Oh my God, you know, I'm just so impressed with you. Thank you so much for that. So actually, by having that mindset though, to think like that, very single-minded is just wonderful. And I and what you've explained there to me, whether you know this or not, but that's customer personas and empathy mapping you're doing there, okay, which are two of the tools in customer experience. And this is my point, actually, that you live and breathe charity experience, and you do it far more than many organizations without even realizing you're doing it. But that very starting point, but I understand the different needs and expectations of these different personas, has allowed you to really empathize and develop an appreciation for them. So I knew we'd find some gold like this. This is this is wonderful. So we've we've touched on the benefactors experience. So one of the things I think that you shared in your own story is actually the benefit that they get is they're of course they're caught up in the moment of grief and they've got a very challenging time ahead of them. But at some point, they'll sit there and look at that photograph and they will be processing grief and they'll be smiling, and new memories, which are actually locked away memories, will rush forward and they'll start to celebrate and enjoy the fact that this wonderful person they still love, and as you said, they still love them. So that's incredible. It's very difficult for you to be able to assess because you don't know when it's going to happen, do you? It's going to happen at some point. But you've laid it down there, and there we go. And we've had a little talk about the photographers. What I'd like to now move to is the donor experience. Now, I could talk about this firsthand because I've been through this. I've given To a number of charities I support. When I received the Heartbeat gift, it just made me feel instantly connected to what you're trying to achieve in a way that I've never felt with any. I felt, you know, please pat on the back, well done, I'm supporting a charity with others before. But all of a sudden, I felt I shifted a few steps closer to being a part of something, part of the movement. Where did the inspiration for this come? Because as I just described, you know, charity experience of charity marketing, it quite often is about can we get a single donation? Can we get a repeat donation? Can we get a legacy? You know, kind of that's what you're working towards. Whereas you're approaching it in a very different way. This is an experience for donors. What motivated you to think about a donor experience?

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So, one of the things, again, going back to how can we love people better? Like I've been a donor too. Most of my experiences have felt like a transaction, right? Like I give money, they say thank you sometimes, you know, like not all the time. It is sometimes as well. Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Um, it should always be a thank you. So sometimes I get a thank you, and yet I gave because I wanted to help. And so it's like, well, how many organizations are reporting on impact? And I know that's like really, really hard, but I think for me, I was very, very inspired by some of the organizations who are doing that really well.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

So it was like, okay, it can be done. They figured out a way to do it. You know, I'll give a shout out to Charity Water, who's like one of my favorite storytellers and transparency, you know, nonprofits that are, I feel like are doing it really well. Preemptive love is another one that has really inspired me to see them give and care and communicate well. It was like, all right, this can be done, but like, how do we do it as love not last in our way with our voice for our message, you know? Because like Charity Water, for example, if if you give money, you can get a GPS location of like the well that you helped create, you know, that you helped bring to life. We can't really like give addresses of the families you serve, you know. It's like so there's like in in our situation, there is the privacy factor that we have to be mindful of in loving our families well, right? We never want to exploit people, we never want to violate trust. And so, how do we do this well? That was kind of like the first thing of how do we not make this a transaction? Because that never feels good, especially when you're really trying to help. And so it was like, okay, how can we love our donors better? How can we really develop something special and make people feel like they're a part of something bigger because you because you are? And so for me, it was like I think I really realized just how critical it was through 2020. So much of giving had had shrunken and people had stopped giving in a lot of in a lot of areas. Honestly, we only had two monthly givers drop off uh that year. And all of our monthly givers, some of them even said, you know what, I'm only giving five dollars, I can give ten dollars, like increase my gift to $10. Or I'm giving $10, you can up mine to 20. And and truly, like we have uh a couple major corporate sponsors. Northside Hospital is one who has definitely like helped us grow and and sustain. But our monthly givers were truly so special during the pandemic to keep us month after month knowing, okay, we have $2,000 or $3,000 coming in every month. This is huge. And we're still a small organization, like we're we're growing and we're we're increasing the heartbeat. But for us, that was critical. So that's why part of the the rebranding to call it the heartbeat came from the idea that like if all of these members dried up, we would die. And so when we launched, I had called them the foundation builders because at that time they were truly building our foundation. But I was like, when we survived the pandemic, our foundation's pretty good. We have a solid foundation. So they're no longer building the foundation, but now they're giving us life and they're helping us love people well. And so the heartbeat felt like an appropriate name. And so, really, yeah, the inspiration was like, okay, how can we make them feel special? Not to like blow smoke, but truly because these donors are so special to us, like we really value them. And so, how do we make this more than a transaction? And one of the programs that has developed in the past couple of years is a community support program. So we have our photography program where we photograph people facing a terminal diagnosis, but our community support program really came from listening to the families that we served and the people that I would speak to at conferences and stuff like that, saying, So the families would say, All of our support's drying up, no one's here to help us. But all these people I would speak to would say, like, oh my gosh, I want to help, I just don't know how. And so it's like, how can we bridge this gap? So one of the things that we realized was like so many people want to help and they just don't know what to say and they don't know what to do to get started. And so we created a website called how can I love you better.com. It's just an easy email form to say, Hey, I want to help you. Here are some things that I'm willing to do to help you. That gets emailed to them. And then the person getting the email can think about it, take time to respond with a calendar plugin to say, actually, if you can bring me lunch on Friday at noon, that'd be fantastic. And then the conversation started, and then you have that relationship. So one of the other tools that we have in in the community support program are empathy cards, because I've gone to card stores and have not been able to find anything that really communicated the heart of what I was feeling in wanting to support someone. And so we were like, we'll just create our own cards. We created some empathy cards. And in thinking about how we can best support our donors and include them in this process, let's empower them and give them tools to show up in their community, you know, give them tools to show up for people in their own lives who need help. Part of the, I don't want to blow the whole welcome gift, but part of the welcome gift for the heartbeat member is you get this collection of empathy cards so that if you know someone in your own life or in the future something comes up, you have a card ready to go. That was part of the inspiration behind the donor care welcome, is like these are super valued members of our community and we want them to know that. And how can we empower them to show up in their own lives?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I think it's wonderful. I think you you just understand the importance of the emotive connection you you you need to have as well as the financial transactional connection you need to have. I mean, in there, we talk about with six superheroes, we talk about kind of superpowers. One of them is active listening. You know, you took feedback from your families to hear what they think would make a difference. We've been talking about empathy in bucket loads here. Another one is experimenting, you know, experimenting and not being afraid of failing until you succeed. And you know, some of the things you're doing here are not out of a textbook, this has been done a million times, just go for it. You just kind of you know, you're fighting you're facing off into a bit saying, Will it work? And there's there's not even an echo coming back saying, Yep. Yeah, you know, the only echo you're gonna get back is well, try it.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah, try it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

And I think by having that, how can we love them better? Because it keeps you so pure, it gives you so focused. I think it's what the British rowing team, it was when they were winning all their Olympic medals, it was, will it make the boat go faster? You know, going out for going out for a couple of beers with the boys afterwards to debrief, will it make the go bow faster? Yes. Staying out till two, staying out to two in the morning, having a curry and going to the nightclub. No, that won't make the boat go faster. So, you know, so it was very focused, but it just fell rower.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I totally remember that.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah, I think that's what you'll bring it to there, but also in there is sharing everything in the spirit of progress. And this whole this whole demonstration is that with you is case, you're giving it all away and sharing. And another one we have in there is um making others success your reward. So actually, you know, that their gain, they're getting through the grief is actually your great, that's that's your reward from this all. So you're embodying many, many aspects of this. And and I know as a as a donor, part of the heartbeat, that physical connection you have because of the heartbeat expression, you are you feel like you're helping keep something, you know, keeping something alive. And it's not lost in you that it's it's a memory. That's what you're keeping alive here, is a is a memory through what you're running here. So I think your donor program is incredible. I think it's a really good blueprint for anyone in another charity sector to have a think about. I'd recommend they subscribe and they just become a part of it and just go through that emotional journey that you go through to actually get the value of it. And at the end of it, they can then steal with pride your approach because it's you know, it's it's true, truly incredible. It really, really is. And and I think you you're a kind of a a bit of a maverick in this space as well. Because when you think of when I know how you know, kind of charity experience works, you're breaking some of the rules here. You really are breaking some of the rules, which is wonderful. It's really wonderful to hear. Now, um, there's another dimension, we touched upon it a little bit. So these individuals who become part of your uh your boards and become part of your your your not-for-profit, how does it work? How do you keep their experience connected to what you're trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, that's a really good question and something that's still a struggle. We have staff members and board members, and I think as a small organization, and like anyone who's bootstrapped anything can relate to this, like you're doing so much. I have five full-time jobs, like at least.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

It is really hard to keep track of it all and manage it and prioritize what needs to be prioritized and not miss things. Part of when I hire people or look for board members to recruit, I'm looking for people with skills that I don't have. Keeping them engaged, it's not as hard because like they're contributing, they're actively contributing because it's stuff I can't do. So it's like, okay, like I need your help, you know, like it's not like, oh, I'm just gonna pay you to like sort of help me. No, if you are it. Part of it is I bring on people who embody the values of love not lost. Like they're genuinely committed to loving people well too. So they lead with love, they strive for excellence, they practice self-care, they're healthy, mindful, honest individuals. We really, really want to have an incredible team to help us achieve our goals and our mission. So they play a critical part. And I think they're engaged, one, because they're doing stuff that's actively making a difference. And then two, like I try and bring those stories back to them, right? So it's like at board meetings, I'll have story time where I'll share a story of a family that I've recently photographed or a story of a photographer who was greatly impacted by our training, just like sharing that, like even though you're not directly connected with the impact, like you are still having the impact. Shoney is is my main staff person right now. And you know, one of the things with with her is like she's oh in it a lot. So she hears a lot of the impact, but also it's really nice when like, you know, we get a compliment on welcome package or like a giving bursary gift where someone texts me and they're like, Oh my God, Ashley, this is so cool. I wasn't expecting it. You know, I'll let Shoni know, like, hey, this person was so excited to receive their package, like, great job. And she'll be like, oh, good. You know, it's like we're real people behind the team, you know. So it's like, like, it's really a beautiful thing when people who are receiving it can take a moment to give appreciation because I can pass that along to everyone who's giving. And so I I think that's like one way that I try and keep them engaged and on track with our vision is sharing the impact and sharing the celebrations and celebrating the small wins, you know, like what you've highlighted there, and I'm I'm hoping our listeners will get this is often in organizations, they'll share back the major successes.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

You know, if you're a hot if you're a a courier company, we delivered X number of packages, X number of time, or if you're a a toy retailer, you know, we we managed to get so many sales and stock out this year. And that's kind of what you're talking about with the wonderful emotive stories you bring back in terms of the photographer's story and the beneficiary story, but you're describing it rather than as a set of targets, you're describing it as a story. That's that's great. But the magic in there was the thing that you recognized was actually the experience itself sometimes. That's what I've yeah, I've invested in that as general. Anyone that's I've I did that bit, and that's the bit that you've decided to pull out and replay back to them. And that's the bit that I think most organizations just forget because that's the BAU, isn't it? That's just the stuff you do, but it's no, that's yeah, exactly, exactly. That is the stuff I do. So when you when you call out and say they found their welcome pack was wonderful, it's just like, oh my god, that lifts my day. That's the contribution I could make, and you're telling me it was recognized and appreciated. Yeah. I mean, it's a different, it's a different level you're operating at, actually. Honestly, you you don't really should, you know, honestly, it the stuff that you're doing for your staff and for your donors is kind of world-class charity experience. It's it's brilliant. It's really, really brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Thank you. Yeah, I think too, to your point though, like when you recognize the little things that you're doing every day, knowing that those made a difference makes you try harder. Or and maybe not try harder, but it makes you like focus your attention, like when you're doing those things. It's like, oh, I'm putting a welcome bag together for our new donor. It's like instead of thinking like, oh, this isn't gonna matter. So, like, why am I taking the time and the care to like put it together? You think back to like, oh, I remember when Christopher opened his and he got really excited and sent us a message and like recorded a video on LinkedIn and shared it, which was amazing. You know, it's like those are the kinds of experiences we want to create. And each time we hear a story, it inspires us to keep caring and to keep doing. Yeah, I really appreciate the compliment.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

And so it was, I think as a leader in this space, you know, people need to hear this because it's easy to forget that, isn't it? It's easy just to let those moments pass by. Maybe you get an email, someone says, Thank you very much. Oh, that's nice, you let it pass by. But you know, I remember a very interesting story of a carpet company, and people would turn up to their the carpets would turn up to the house and they were the wrong size, the wrong colour, all sorts of kind of silly mistakes and stuff. Um, and first of all, it was to blast the the warehouse people in terms of you're not doing a good job. And then someone just thought to turn it around. And every time someone said, Oh my god, it fit perfectly, or this colour was just what I wanted, they put up TV screens in the warehouse and they just put these messages up there. And what a surprise, error rate dropped down to something like one or half a percent, because people were remembering to go back and say, the job that you did, people value. Yeah, and it's so important to not, of course, we have to share the big stories, but to to forget this stuff is is, you know, it's and things can fall apart and you don't know why. And that's that's what happens when you kind of neglect to respect and recognize others.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah, and I think it's easy. So, like we're obviously like still a small organization, right? So it could be easy for me to be like, oh, it doesn't matter because we're small. But one of the things that I learned early on in business at um a conference that I went to is like how you do one thing is how you do everything. And I've always been like an overachiever. So it's like I always do strive for excellence. I always do want the A. I'm definitely like a helper and an achiever. That's part of the motivation, but also like how much easier will it be if I can develop these systems and practices now as we grow instead of growing and then people not having good experiences. Um, just to encourage all the small business leaders out there, just start when you're small, doing it well. And it's so much easier. And like people appreciate it, even if it's one person. Like when I write a blog post, I'm like, if one person reads this and finds it helpful, it was worth it.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

That is so true. I know I can hear it ringing in my ears of organization that say, we'll just get through this phase, it's gonna be a bit ugly, but we'll make up for it afterwards. It can never be that because all of a sudden your North Star, your purpose has been diluted. You have to start with the purpose and you have to apply that to everything you do because I, as a donor or beneficiary, I have my moments of truth throughout this. And if the one that matters to me drops, it's gonna confuse me. That's just not who I thought it was. And and to your point, then you know, you only need a few donors kind of dropping away, and all of a sudden, it changes the dynamic of what growth looks like and where you can support, etc. So you've got to sweat the small stuff, you've got to really be considerate of that and understand. And and I think what you've done as well is you've set your purpose, and this is where you have to take time to get it right. It's so true to what you want to achieve. And organizations need to take a bit of time just to understand. We can't just say we want to be number one or we want to put customers at the heart. It has to be something that really you are all committed to, and you know, and also you know you can deliver upon as well. There's no point setting an expectation you can't deliver upon. I think you've, you know, we've been through here a bit of a bingo card. Does that transfer well? Do you have bing cards?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Um, so a bingo card of kind of all the all the best habits and traits of charity experience, Ashley, and you kind of tick them all off here. So you really are a kind of CX superhero to me, because you're living and breathing what delivering a great experience is for so many uh stakeholders. And I can empathize with your kind of five five roles positioning because anyone in a smaller organization is you know trying to juggle those things, but you are a case study for all of us. And I, you know, I I hope because you want to help so many more people that actually, you know, just through the broadcasting of this podcast, some people at the hopefully will say, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna take up the challenge and just see how good this experience is, um, so they can kind of become a bit closer. And uh we'll have you back at some point in the future, and we'll kind of you know be penning down these the 10 laws of uh charity experience according to uh according to Ashley, because they really are is a masterclass, honestly, and you don't you don't appreciate just how good you are at it. So well done. Thank you so much for being a guest. Yeah so much for you know taking your moment and helping so many others out there. If people want to get hold of you, you're on LinkedIn, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Oh, yes, yes. I love it when people reach out. So connect with me, follow me.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

We'll put your details and uh Love Not Lost. Uh I'll put the website up. You share a lot again on there in terms of the things you're up to. So if people are running smaller charities and want to get ideas, they can kind of see it. And if anyone is you know kind of emotively connected with this topic, then please do do support um Love Not Lost. You'll enjoy the experience as as much as uh making a contribution.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Awesome. Yeah, we'd love we'd love to connect with people. So on social, we're at love not lost.org. Our website's lovelotlost.org. And then on LinkedIn, I'm Ashley Nicole Jones, and you can find me. Yeah, search for Love Not Lost, and you can find me that way too.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Great. We'll we'll put a link into the piece here as well. We'll make sure we include it whenever we're we're posting this this uh podcast. But for me personally, this has been great. I've I've you know had reaffirmed everything I thought about you being kind of such a skilled practitioner. I honestly wish you all the best and um enjoying that we're able to kind of be be able to support you in a very small way um on your cause as well going forward. So, but for now, Ashley, if you've got a final message you'd like to leave with our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

I think it's just don't be afraid. So much of the time, fear stops us from loving people well. And we're afraid of what people might think, um, we're afraid of how they might react, or we're afraid of messing up or looking like an idiot, or fear is just so much the blocker of love in a lot of ways. If you're in the midst of a decision, just asking yourself, okay, what is the loving thing to do, or how can I love people better? How can I love me better right now? Um, and is this decision based in love or is it based in fear?

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Thank you so much for sharing that really powerful message. Once again, Ashley, it's been a pleasure having you on the CX Imperius podcast, and um wish you all the best of the future. Keep well.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Thank you so much.